Introverts — Build Quiet Visibility, Attract Opportunities Without Self-Promotion

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports. Right now, the NBA is heating up, March Bandit’s here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there’s a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you’ve got to see for yourself. That’s why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it’s about staying connected to my sports. I could follow the teams I care about, get real-time scores, breaking news, and highlights all in one place. Delo the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment. Have you ever felt invisible on the job? Like you’re doing great work, but opportunities keep passing you by and going to the loudest person in the room? The advice you get is always the same. Network, speak up, promote yourself, put yourself out there. But what if visibility didn’t have to feel like aping the extroverts? Welcome to the Introverted Leader. It’s a podcast helping introverted leaders embrace your underrated, quiet strengths, so you can get promoted and start earning what you deserve. I’m Greg Weinger. I have over 25 years of leadership experience, and yes, I am an introvert. Today I’m joined by Leanne Calderwood. She’s a LinkedIn and personal branding coach who helps introverts build influence and attract opportunities by showing up in a way that actually suits their personality. In this episode, you’ll discover one, how to replace your fear of visibility by flipping the spotlight away from yourself. Make it about serving the one person in the audience you’re trying to reach. Number two, how to build an authentic personal brand using simple connection points. These are clues to your personality, so you’re not oversharing or trying to be some crazy influencer. And number three, how to turn your quiet strengths into real thought leadership using Leanne’s 10% edge and her simple rise framework, so opportunities start flowing to you. This was a great conversation with Leanne. If you’ve been craving visibility that feels calm, centered, and authentic, you’re going to love this. Thank you for having me, Greg. I wanted to start first asking a little bit more about you. Do you feel like you are an introvert or an extrovert? Yeah, I’m a raging introvert. I was called that once by a friend of mine and I’ve decided to harness it. So yes, I am an extreme introvert. Raging, that’s great. How did this show up for you in your life in maybe earlier years and how did you come to realize and embrace your raging introversion? Well, I think our generation, Greg, if you don’t mind me saying us in our 40s and 50s, we never grew up with those terms, introvert and extrovert. Instead, we were labeled as people who were shy or people who didn’t party and didn’t hang out in big crowds. And I was no different. I was probably in my early 40s when I realized there isn’t anything wrong with me wanting to be by myself. Our generation has had to kind of remove the label of the word introvert and look at, what does that mean for how we navigate relationships, how we navigate work, how we navigate sales, which is where my introversion really presented itself that was different from my now, I know extroverted counterparts. So how did you end up facing that and developing your own ways of succeeding? Yeah. Thank you. It’s a great question. I think being around people all the time, I was in meetings and events, which meetings and events is about meeting people and being around people. And I found that part exhausting. So would go through my work day, planning a meeting, executing a meeting, and in the evening hours, that big crash would hit. Or after a three day conference, that three day crash would hit. And the post conference was really, really hard for me. And that’s where I kind of noticed, okay, this isn’t right. Is it it was that post work crash that maybe go things are off here. And then my career took a slight shift still in the meetings and events industry, but I found myself in a role that required me to find clients to do sales. It was the first time in my career that I’d had to do that. And I was in my mid 30s. And what was really telling is at the same time I was starting my business where I had to find clients. So was a colleague who was hired at the exact same time. The irony, she was an extreme extrovert, my complete opposite when it came to walking into a networking room and making connections. And so watching her navigate that room seamlessly, and I was the awkward one back against the wall. The things that ran through my head is I’m never going to make this business a success because I can’t do what she’s doing. I can’t fake it. She’s go natural at it. And I can’t fake my way through creating relationships in this networking room. And so very short and cited at the time. I thought, if this is my competition, I’m done. I’m dead in the water. This is not going to be the career for me. But I took a pause as most introverts should do and like to do and thought, here’s the thing. We don’t have to compete with the extroverts. They’re naturally gifted at that for a reason. But we have natural gifts that we can lean on in our introversion. And that’s when things really started to change for me. And of course, full circle. That’s when I started to attract clients using different techniques. No longer networking and big, loud networking rooms. No longer cold calling, but doing more of that inbound marketing using my personal brand and starting to develop my thought leadership, which is what brings us here to this conversation today. And the realization for me around how do I build this business differently was roughly the same time that social media started to take off. So it was about 2008, 2009 and Twitter at the time was only three years old. That’s when I started to look at in particular Twitter and I thought, okay, this could be something that I can do, right? There’s no friction required being in a loud networking room. Let’s see what happens. And so I always had that sandbox mentality of let’s try this out. Let’s test this thing. If it doesn’t work, we’ll try something else. So I lucked out by choosing Twitter as a place to start. And so that’s where I started. Her, do you say LinkedIn is an introvert friendly playground? There’s something natural that is easier for introverts in these social media spaces. I do believe that I think introverts can thrive even more so than our extroverted counterparts on social. But it’s all in the way that we look at it, Greg. And again, introverts are going to look at it differently. And the lens that I would like all of our introverted friends to play is instead of looking at a social media platform as being an online stage, which as introverts sometimes we’re not comfortable with that stage. Let’s flip this script and make it less about us shining the spotlight on ourselves. And more about shining the spotlight on the person that we want to impact and influence. So in my case, if I was trying to attract clients and generate sales from those clients, the social media content is about that client. It’s no longer about me. It’s no longer about I am great. And these are all the great things that I can do for you. And I can help you save time and save money and reduce risk and all the sales things that we’re told to project. But instead talk about the client’s pain points. I see that you’re having trouble with time management. I see that you’re having trouble reducing risk. These are some of the things that I know you’re struggling with. Here are some resources that I have that can maybe help support that. So when we turn that lens 180 and make it more about the other person, then that spotlight kind of fades in the background. And now this platform that we’re on, whatever platform that is becomes a little more comfortable because Greg, it’s never about you and me. It’s always about the person we’re trying to impact. Yeah, I love that. And so what we’re talking about here in general is replacing your fear of visibility and how do you deal with that? You want to increase your influence. And so then you’re faced with the stage, whatever the stage is, whether it’s the networking room or it’s even the online platforms is there’s a lot of visibility there too. And so there’s a lot of fear going into it. And I love that reversal, the flip of the spotlight. It makes the message come from a place of service. So you’re actually there. It’s not about you. You turn your attention outward to helping other people. And it really changes the whole feeling of it all. And I would challenge you with the exact same question, Greg, because you’ve had now this successful podcast running for almost a full year. Congratulations. But why did you start the podcast? And as an introvert, what was your driving motivator? Sure. My motivator has been to try to help others. And it’s really coming from that same exact point of service. Having been through a lot of struggles as an introvert in leadership in particular, which includes a lot of public speaking and a lot of visibility. There’s a lot that I have learned and overcome and a lot of fantastic resources out there. And I really wanted to make some of this more visible for people who are younger and just starting in that journey, hopefully, to make it easier. So it’s absolutely the motivating force. And it was really, it’s coming back to that again and again, helping carry me through points of fear, editing myself on video, listening to my voice. Like, these are things that are super cringe. These are things that it had to get through and overcome. So now it’s just, now it’s fine. But there’s a lot of discomfort and all that. So I couldn’t agree with you more that having that sense of purpose and that’s purpose rooting and helping other people is what drives you forward and makes it meaningful as an introvert. Yeah. And I love the word that you use there being of service. And maybe that’s the tap too that all of us introverts need to have when we have those moments of paying and fear because they’re always going to come up. That’s never going to go away. Never introverts. That is part of our DNA and our temperament. But when we look at it as if I don’t show up, I cannot help the other person. If I don’t show up, I’m no longer in service to the other person. That at least for me, that’s that oomph that that piece that I need to hear, the piece I need to tell myself that if I selfishly save my message, I’m in no longer in a position to help others with it. So I almost look at it like I can’t be selfish. I can’t keep this to myself. I know something that’s going to help someone else. I need to make sure that they hear that. And so that also helps me get out of my introverted shell because that word selfish I think really impacts me and I don’t want to be selfish with what I’ve learned. Yeah. That’s a really good reframe. And it’s really true when you’re focused on yourself on your own fear as it is selfish, it is in a word directed and it blocks you from helping others. And then is there a reframe for this concept of self promotion or do you even think about this as self promotion? Yeah. So that’s a, it’s an interesting question because I think we’re all going to struggle with self promotion. Even some extroverts I think in some respects suffer from it. Introverts definitely. But once again, when you have a product or an offer that you know is going to make someone’s day better. It helps with the promotion of it. That helps with even yourself promotion if you have a message that you want to share. So if you can look at it through the frame of this is about the other person and to hold back whatever it is be it a message, an offer, a service, that’s going to be a disservice to the person we’re trying to impact and influence. So I think that reframe in and of itself is not promoting yourself is not doing the other person any favors. You need to promote what it is that you do because you are in service to them. Does that answer your question? Yeah. So we’re talking about replacing your fear of visibility with a feeling of service, replacing that fear with a driving purpose of service. It doesn’t matter what you’re selling. There’s someone who needs your service or else you wouldn’t have a product to sell in the first place. So now we need to make it easy for them to work with us because we are in a place where we’re trying to help versus sell. Love it. So say someone’s starting to approach this and what are some ways they could build confidence in that direction, gain confidence with this visibility. Yeah, visibility is sounds like a big word. It sounds like you’re talking to many people. And so the first reframe I like to do with my students is you’re never talking to the masses. You’re talking to one person. So you can even picture what that person looks like in your mind. Maybe it’s not a real person. Maybe it’s an avatar of all of your potential clients into one frame. But when you look at it as you are speaking with one individual, introverts can do that all day long and twice on Sundays. So you and I can have this conversation. I’m very comfortable, Greg. I think you’re very comfortable as well because you and I are not thinking about the hundreds or thousands of people who are going to listen to this podcast later on. You and I are having a conversation. We may as well pour ourselves a cup of coffee and do it in our living room or in the nearby coffee shop. So online visibility works the same way. If we can look at our content as being for one individual, then again, it makes it so much easier to put ourselves out there because we are not trying to be someone we’re not. We are not trying to talk to the masses. We’re just trying to talk to one person. And so that’s especially in the beginning of my visibility journey. The mantra I love telling myself is if this helps one person today, my work is done. Like I just want to help one person with this tweet. I want to help one person with this LinkedIn post. And if we can again look at it because of the metrics that we can get from podcast downloads and social media likes, etc. All you’re looking for is one person to like that. All you’re looking for is one person. Even if they don’t even leave a physical like, but one person to say, aha, I never thought of it that way. This is helpful. Then I think you and I Greg, we’ve done our job. We’ve done what we’ve set out to do. And that’s how our visibility grows because we start to play in that sandbox and we learn how to tweak our messaging so that we’re touching one person here, their one person, their one and one. Never masses, but one at a time. And of course, we’re trying to make that grow to hit more people one at a time. No, yeah. I really love that. And it really is the focus on service and to help the one person and they have that being in your motivating factor. How do you resist against the temptation for looking at those metrics, counting the likes and the impressions? And then there’s the dopamine head and then there’s just, oh, this one got crickets, my guts. And then you’re on a roller coaster and then it’s taking you out of that place of service. You’re right. And of course, introverts will suffer from this more because we are typically more sensitive individuals. We do tend to take things a little bit more personally. Look at that. Those metrics as just data points. That’s all it is. It’s not personal. It’s data. And we got to remember as well that a lot of the data is driven by something outside of our control. The algorithm changes. In fact, LinkedIn is going through this wonky algorithm thing right now where everybody’s engagement is down. And we need to be okay with that. Because it’s outside of our control. The engagement may be down, but once again, let’s put our focus back on. It’s hitting one person. And now that my engagement is down and I see the data, what are some things that I can do to increase the engagement again? Because the algorithms outside of my control. So let’s play with the algorithm and not against the algorithm. So especially when it comes to social media and those likes, we just got to look at it as data. It’s just feedback. It’s not personal. It’s only feedback. And that’s what’s going to create our next post and our next sandbox and our next this and our next that I have at any given time, a number of sandboxes on the go where I tweak little things in my social just to see, is this going to resonate better? Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn’t. It’s just data. It’s just feedback to help me do that tomorrow or next week. I want to talk about building a brand that fits your personality. And so even that term, building a brand might sound daunting or like really me. It somehow doesn’t necessarily fit introversion because I think a lot of introverts really value authenticity. And I’m guessing, you know, that’s where the goal is. That’s where your brand is is in your authentic self. Tell me what building an introvert friendly brand is for you. Yeah. And you’re right. I wish there was a different word for it. I wish it wasn’t the word personal brand because you and I, we think of the word personal brand and you’re right. We think of the influencers on Instagram, right? Who have millions of followers and cosmetic deals and such. And I wish there was a different word that conveyed your authentic self that’s in service to others. And that again, that’s where your personal brand can be born. Finding things that are authentic to you that create connection points with the other person. Everyone’s looking to relate to another human. And so if there’s something that you can find in common with, did you know the average Northwest natural customer is paying about the same for their natural gas bills as 20 years ago? Because with Northwest natural, warmth value under liability are built right in. Learn more at nwnatural.com. Your intended audience of the one person you want to impact an influence, that’s where your brand can start. And so I’ll give you an example. One thing that I find really connects people to me is I’m a tea drinker, a chronic tea drinker. And the amount of people, peers, that people I thought I had known for decades that come out of the woodwork and say, oh, I love tea too. Just like the secret society of non-coffee drinkers out there. And when I talk about tea, that’s what creates a connection point. And it’s really easy for someone to say, I’m a tea drinker too. We can be friends now. And so I think it’s important for introverts to find those small connection points. It does need to be the bulk of your content. So for example, if Greg, you’re trying to teach young leaders, a bulk of your stuff is going to be around leadership about getting comfortable in a room of your peers, etc. But what is that other thing, that authentic thing about Greg? Maybe it’s, you like Marvel films. Maybe it’s maybe here the coffee drinker and you and I can still be friends, don’t worry. But there’s something there that creates a connection point. You’re an all-gray drinker. We can totally be friends. We’re going to be best friends. Totally. See, and it’s just, see those little things now you and Greg, now you and I can trust each other a little bit more because of some tea, which is really crazy to think about. But that’s what people are looking for. They don’t want to be sold to. They want to work with people that they trust and they like. And so those little tiny snippets of our personality can shine. Now the one thing I also caution my students is we are very diverse humans, all of us. And we have hundreds, maybe even thousands of different connection points. So how do we choose the ones that are right for us? And I liken it to a kitchen pantry. We have our personality pantry that’s full of all the things that make us up. Right from birth to now, maybe you played soccer as a kid, maybe you coached soccer, all of the things. And then selectively you get to choose what do I want to be my connection points in this season of my career or this season of my life. And we can take those off the pantry and weave it into our content and create those connection points. And then maybe a season changes and you decide you’re going to park the tea and you’re not going to talk about tea anymore. But maybe there’s something else in the pantry. I’m now going to weave authentically into my content. So we don’t have to make anything up here. Everything that we put out there is authentic because we are full, our pantry is full of things that are authentically us. Our challenge introverts and extroverts alike is deciding which ones are we going to talk about today and which ones are we going to park. That way we can create clarity and we don’t create confusion by talking about too many things at once. Yeah. And I think some of this is not going to come natural to introverts because this is how I feel. Historically, I don’t share things. I just haven’t had a motivation to share. I under share parts about my personality. And so I have all the things like the tea or the books I read or the way I exercise or the truck by how they’re all these things that these are things that I would need to proactively share more in order to give people more to understand and connect with in a sense. But again, you don’t have to share all of those things. We’re just going to share one. We’ve got your leadership content that styled in like that’s where you’re in service to the other person. So just choose one or two things that creates that personal connection point and park the rest. And then you get to decide which ones of those things you want to talk about, whether it’s your health journey or your love for Earl Gratis. I’m always going to choose the Earl Gratis, but that’s because that’s my thing. But they care about my characteristic du jour. So you don’t have to share it all. Great. Your life does not need to be an open book. You get to choose. You’re the gatekeeper. But anything you put out there, it’s still going to be authentically you. That’s because we decide to put things in the pantry. Doesn’t mean we’re hiding or we’re gating our lives. We’ve done that intentionally because it’s too much for them to know everything. Now we’re going to create confusion. Now we are going to be white noise because no one will know how to label us in their heads. Right? When we meet someone new, we always want to assign, okay, which box does this person fall in? Are they a friend? Are they family? Are they full? Are they someone else altogether? I love it when people call me the tea lady or the LinkedIn lady. Because now I’ve done my job, they have put me in a box. And that’s the box that I want to be in. And that’s why my content intentionally pushes them in that direction. Still authentic. I am a tea lady. I am a LinkedIn lady. I’ve given them that information so that they can assign the correct box to what they want to categorize me in their minds. Does that make sense? Yes. It sounds like what we’re doing is we’re creating a hook for people to attach, to make you a little stickier and someone’s mind and they remember, oh, yeah, oh, this content is from Leanne again. Oh, she’s talking about tea again. I might have to try that. And then you attach all that content to that hook in their brain and then something to come back to. I love the words you use there. It makes it sticky, right? Now, now you have a place in their mind. You have become sticky in their mind. And it’s because we’ve given them that one connection point or that compelling piece of content that’s repeated over and over again. So they know, okay, Greg, he’s the leadership guy. This is the guy that I need to learn more about, to follow, to buy from, refer, to work with whatever that thing is for that individual. Yeah. And I’ve heard this, he can even extend to things like your wardrobe, the things that you wear, these become part of that picture that becomes sticky in someone’s mind, whether it’s the bright colored shirt you always wear or glasses or something like that. It sounds like this is the branding and this is important because I want to hear your take on this, but this is really essential because this helps people get to know you, builds, or the term pair of social relationship with you and ideally a social relationship with you. But in order to help people, this is part of what you need to make that happen. Yeah. I like how you mentioned the physical traits. So when I work with my students, we actually go through eight different categories of where to pull those pantry items and the physical traits is one of those categories. And I always advise my students to, if you can lean into something that is the same kind of colored shirt for me, it’s my hair. I don’t know what it is for you, Greg. Maybe it’s your glasses. Maybe you can tell me what it is, but that really helps then when we get into those extroverted environments. So now when we’re in a networking room and we’re wearing the Hawaiian shirt, like we’ve always done on our socials, people come up to us. And I think that’s why that is why I started this in the first place is because I was so terrified of starting conversations in a networking room. Now I don’t have to. People come up to me. Haley Ann, I recognize your hair. Fair enough. Haley Ann, I love what you posted on LinkedIn the other day or Haley Ann, I’m starting to use LinkedIn a little bit more. Let me share a bit about my journey. And these are complete strangers. And so for an introvert, man, that’s power because I no longer have to break the ice. I’ve already broken it because of something I’ve done in this environment, that’s one on one environment that impacted them in a way where I didn’t have to open the conversation. So that was the game changer for me. That’s where it really shifted the way I looked at online visibility. And it all started. I was at a conference, maybe a handful of months after I started on Twitter and people were coming up to me going, Hey, are you L. Calderwood, which was my handle on Twitter? They didn’t even know my name. They just knew that I was L. Calderwood. And it was like, bam, this is the difference maker right here. And so I’m hopeful that people and going back to those physical traits, that helps because then people recognize that online visible trait that maybe you’re putting on your profile picture or if you do video, et cetera. And then they see you in real life and they can like, this is the same person. This is not a different human. Now I can make that connection point. That’s great. And that’s what I’ve heard about the distinctive outfit. It really takes the pressure off when you do enter in those more uncomfortable environments like the crowded networking room. Love that. I want to turn the conversation into how do you establish yourself in thought leadership? And turning our innate strengths as introverts into this advantage in thought leadership. How do introverts go about that? Well, they go about it the same way that they’ve done their other content. Is they go into their pantry of the things that they know even just 10% more than the other human? And again, I think this is where all people get tripped up when it comes to thought leadership is there are so many myths around thought leadership that you have to know it all. You have to be the expert in your field in order to be a thought leader. And I pumped that to the curb right, curb right away, Greg, because we don’t need to be the expert in order to impact and influence the person that we’re trying to impact and influence. They don’t want to know it all. They want to know the next step. And so the analogy I like to use around this is if we thought only people like Gordon Ramsey could share their cooking intel, that is way above my pay grade. I am never going to cook a duck souffle out of king in my life. But if there’s a mom out there that has four crockpot recipes because her kids play sports in the evenings and she needs to get them out the door, that’s my human. That’s who I want to learn from and go her thought leadership teaching other moms how to run busy households because their kids are off to sports and we want to make nutritious meals. That is her zone of genius. And so when we think again, I wish there was a different word for it because thought leadership is that 10% edge. It’s not 110% edge. It’s 10%. So I want all introverts to look at their strengths, their talents, their passions. What do they know 10% more than the person they’re trying to impact an influence? So if it’s a client and a client wants to use your product, will you know 10% more about that product than that person? That could potentially be your thought leadership. It doesn’t even need to be anything outside of your product or service. It’s 10% more and now you are in service to that person teaching them your 10% edge. Does that help Greg? Does that kind of take the pressure off a little bit? For sure. And you think about it as mentorship. You don’t have to be the highest sage in the world to help somebody. You just need to have gone through what the next person, the person behind you is about to go through. So that makes a ton of sense. And yeah, that’s a really nice and generous way of thinking about that. So if we wanted to give listeners a couple of things to try, let’s say someone wants to have some more influence and maybe they don’t have a business necessarily, where would you start going about building some of this personal brand and thought leadership? Yeah. Framework always starts very simply and I’ll give you just a very simple four step framework. It’s called the rise framework, RISE and rise means just reflect on the things that make you uniquely you your strengths, your talents, the things that you have passion for. One question I love to challenge my students with is when someone wants to learn something from you, what questions are they asking you? Are you the Excel guru? Are you know, are you the cook? Are you, is that your passion? So reflect on that one thing that you feel you have a great competency for and that you really enjoy. Once again, I think introverts get hung up thinking, oh, if I know Excel, everyone else must know Excel, but that’s not the case. So we need to release ourselves from thinking everyone knows this because I’m good at it. So everyone else must be good at it. It’s just simply not true. So the R and RISE is to reflect. And then the I is to initiate and start conversations and those conversations may not even be online. Those conversations could be with a trusted friend or a trusted colleague. You and I are friends now, Greg. So you may call me up and say, hey, I think I want to talk about this. What do you think? And just initiate conversations to find out, is this something that sticky? Right? I’m going to use your word. Could this be something that’s sticky? Then when you find that sticky thing, start small. And that’s the S in RISE is just to start small. And if we’re looking at LinkedIn, that could be a poll. Polls on LinkedIn are really easy to do. Super fun. And you don’t require images or cameras or anything like that. It’s simply a poll. And what I love about polls is it also invites engagement because people register their vote. So you formulate a question around that thing that you’ve reflected on. And you start to get feedback through those four different options in a LinkedIn poll. And then the last part of the RISE framework is E, which means engage. And that’s the one-on-one dialogue online where we are responding to comments on our social media. Greg, I’m not sure how podcasts work if you get comments, but that’s where you jump in and you reply and you say, thank you. You DM some people on LinkedIn if that’s where the conversation leads. So rather than posting and ghosting, we engage in some way, depending on the platform that we’ve chosen. So we’re going to reflect. We’re going to initiate, start small, and then engage in keeping engaging. So that’s a simple framework for someone who’s just getting started in thought leadership. Obviously, after you start there, there’s a lot more that we can do together. But for someone who’s just starting, let’s just start to rise and see where it goes. Sounds excellent. And we’ll all be enjoying our tea or some of us will be enjoying drinking our Earl Grey while we do so. Amen. Amen. Yeah. All right. Leanne, this has been really great. If people want to learn more about you and your work, where should they go? Yeah, they can find me on LinkedIn, of course, or they can go over to my website at leoncoulderwood.com. All right. Thanks so much for being on the show today. Thanks for having me, Greg. I love talking about this stuff. We could do it all day over more Earl Grey teeth. All right. It’s been great. Thanks. Okay. Let’s take a moment to recap what Leanne shared. Because if you’ve been stuck between wanting more opportunities and hating the idea of self-promotion, this episode gives you a whole new playbook. First, remember, visibility gets easier when you stop making it all about you. And you start making it about helping at least just one other person. When your message is grounded in service, it doesn’t feel like showing off. It feels authentic. Second, start noticing the small connection points that make you human and memorable to your peers, your superiors, your audience, wherever you go. These are things that you can just share conversationally or in your content that humanize you without turning your life into an open book. It’s how trust gets built in a way that still feels like you. And number three, take action now using the 10% edge and the rise framework. Reflect on what you know, initiate conversations starting small and engaging people one person at a time. That’s how thought leadership becomes real for introverts. If this episode helped you, my one ask is simple subscribe to the introverted leader so you don’t miss anything that’s coming up next. These are the kinds of tools that compound your leadership over time. I’m Greg Winder. Keep leading with quiet strength and I’ll see you next time.