Promoted 5 Times in 8 Years — The Introverted Leader's Playbook for Advancing Without Performing

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You can embrace your underrated, quiet strengths, so you can get promoted and start earning what you deserve. I’m Greg Weinger. I have over 25 years of leadership experience, and yes, I am an introvert. Today, I’m talking with Lisa Appia. She’s a former senior leader in the Canadian federal government who has promoted five times in eight years, and she now runs a full-time coaching business helping introverts escape toxic workplaces, build their personal brand, and attract opportunities instead of chasing them. Here’s why this conversation matters to you specifically. Lisa is an introvert who figured out how to make herself impossible to ignore, not by changing who she is, but by getting strategic about how she showed up. In this episode, you’ll learn, one, how to use your natural listening skills as a deliberate career advancement strategy. Number two, why personal branding isn’t about flash, and in particular, some practical ways introverts can build real visibility on LinkedIn without recording a video. And number three, a powerful reframe for imposter syndrome. It just might change the way you think about self-doubt. Let’s get into it. Lisa, such a pleasure to have you on the show today. Welcome. Thank you for the invitation. I’m glad to be here. I’ve talked to a number of people in this space. You have an amazing YouTube channel, and I think you’ve got a lot of momentum there. I’m impressed by the breadth and depth of the content there, and it’s very entertaining. I just love having someone who you identify as an introvert, a quieter person, just very proudly and very authentically being yourself on there. I just love it. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Yeah. Super interested in your journey, and I’d like to have you talk about that with the audience before we get into some of these key topics. Could you give us a little bit of a background, and how’d you get here? Awesome. So, as you mentioned, I worked with the federal government here in Canada for almost 14 years. I built my career there, mostly working in international relations, diplomacy, HR, and policy, so I held various roles. And really, while I was working at the government, I also have always had a passion for career development. When I was 19 or 20, I started a non-profit organization where we would help use with their career development. On an annual basis, we would host a conference called Level Up, and the last one that we hosted was 2019, and that was one of the biggest ones that we’ve had. I was always that person that people would go to for help with their career, help with how they brand themselves, and also through that organization that I was with, I was able to support many youth with their careers. So, as I was building my own career, helping the youth with theirs, I realized that there is a huge gap in terms of people getting access to information on how to be able to level up in their careers, because we’re taught our subject matter, whether you’re an engineer, you’re in finance or whatever it may be, but we’re not really taught how to navigate the workplace and the various challenges that may come with being in a work setting. And I realized when I started my career as an introvert, that at the time I saw it as a difficulty, as a limitation, because I had several experiences where the person who was the loudest got promoted when I didn’t, even though I did the work, even though I was the person who was told be behind the scenes and do the research, but he’s going to go to the conference and speak on your behalf, or he’s going to go to the negotiation. So, I lived those experience enough times to say that enough is enough, and I had to figure out how to navigate the workplace as an introvert, and that’s how things started with me developing strategies to navigate the workplace, and eventually starting my company. Initially, I didn’t start off supporting introverts, I started off as a resume writer. I was a resume writer for a year and a half or two years, and then I noticed a trend, everyone that was coming to me was typically introverts, and I would post content on LinkedIn, and anytime I would talk about being an introvert, that content would blow up, and people would reach out to me asking me questions like, how did you do it, or do you have any tips? I’ve never had an introverted leader tell me more, so then I was like, okay, there’s something there, and then I made the shift to career coaching and leadership development and focusing on supporting introverted leaders. That was about 2022, and here we are now, that’s the main focus of the business. Yeah, well that’s kind of funny to me, so you started out with writing resumes, and so do extroverts not need to work on their resumes? Of course they do, for some reason, you know, you kind of attract people who are like you, not that you’re doing it intentionally, but then as you’re working with a client, you keep hearing that same story that keeps coming up of, I’m not comfortable talking about my value, I don’t want to sound like I’m bragging, I’m not comfortable speaking in interviews, it was like continuously the same pattern, it was like me repeated in multiple people, and I kept attracting those people, and so that was the indication for me that okay, there’s something there, and obviously that these people also didn’t find any support anywhere else that understood what they were going through to be able to help them navigate the workplace. That experience of having someone, like you did the work, you just as good, and the louder a colleague gets, the speaking engagement, and so you’re like, this will not stand, you figure it out that way, that’s great. So you developed those strategies, what were some of the initial strategies there? Yeah, it’s interesting because at the time I didn’t realize that I’m developing strategies in my head, it was just like, I’m not going to be caught in this situation ever yet, I’m not going to be passed over for a promotion. So I would say the very first one, and this was probably around 2014, when this incident with the colleague happened, when I didn’t get selected to go to the negotiation, I determined that I was going to find a way to be able to stand out in the workplace, right? So what I did is that in the role that we were in, it’s mostly a policy role, we were writing agreements for information sharing with international countries, and so what I did is that I often would just listen to conversations that people were having, and I noticed that the senior analysts were often complaining about corporate reporting, and it’s just part of what you have to do with whatever organization you work in. At some point you need to report back on how are things going, what were you able to achieve, there’s a cycle that you kind of follow for that, and it was something that people didn’t like doing because it wasn’t the shiniest, most fun work compared to being able to travel, or receive and go to the UN or whatever, that was the more exciting work that people wanted to do. I realized people were always complaining about it, and I was able to realize that by leveraging a field that a lot of introverts have, which is listening, I determined that, okay, I’m going to learn everything I can about corporate reporting, and I’m going to start positioning myself as the corporate reporting expert, and I was still a junior analyst at that time, so really that reporting side of thing wasn’t necessarily part of my day-to-day work, but it wasn’t something that was overwhelming, because that’s another thing, like I’m not telling people necessarily to take on somebody else’s work and overwhelm yourself, it was something that was very doable while still doing. I began to learn about it, and what happened is that over time, when there were meetings or engagements with senior management where corporate reporting was being discussed, people will now ask me questions, they were coming to me, and they began to see me as that expert in corporate reporting, which eventually led to a meeting being set up with an executive from a different department, and in the meeting, normally at the level that I was at, I shouldn’t have been at that meeting, but because I built my expertise around that, they sent me to that meeting to replace my boss, and so I was sharing my knowledge, sharing my information, and at the end of the meeting, he was like, hey, we’re starting a new team, we need some people with the kind of expertise that you have in corporate reporting, job application is opening on this date, you should apply and let’s see how things go. So I did apply, and that was the first promotion in five that I was able to get in eight years, and it was really by leveraging my listening skills, so yeah, that’s how it started. Right, so is it similar things that you did in your other four promotions? Are there any other variations on that theme? Yeah, good question. So I would say that was the time that I started to build my personal brand, but more within the organization, so not necessarily brand building on LinkedIn, but being intentional about how I was positioning myself within the organization and the narrative that I was creating about my expertise. So I would say that three other promotions that came after that were about that, like being intentional about who I was, the expertise I had to offer, and over time, because I was being intentional about that, I was also being intentional about the decision makers that I was connecting with, the people that I was talking to, and at least I’ll say two of those promotions were basically people who told me like, hey, there’s an opening coming up, I think you would be excellent for this. Make sure that you pay attention when the date comes up. So they were more about my network realizing that, okay, this is the person who can do it, and then encouraging me to actually go for those promotions. And I would say that’s where the strategy around building a personal brand kind of started, more within the organization and eventually also building my brand. To what extent are you following your interest in these things? Is it simply about what the opportunity is that presents itself, or is there some interplay in that? So interest is very important, but I always plan for where I’m going, not necessarily where I am now. So my goal was always to be able to get to a manager role at the time. So the strategy that I would use is, for example, just looking at job postings, getting a better understanding of what are the requirements that I need, two levels from where I am now, one level from where I am now. And then I would kind of reverse engineer to say that, okay, based on where I am now, I have these requirements and I don’t have those requirements. What opportunity can I take next that will allow me to get whatever skills or whatever knowledge that I need to be able to get to the next. So as much as it was based on interest, it was also based on strategy to be able to understand that there are certain requirements that are important to get to the next level. My manager at that time when I was pregnant was a great manager and he was like, still go from the promotion, apply for the promotion. And I got promoted like a month before going on mat leave. So I never really worked at that level. And then I came back and then I applied for another promotion and I got promoted again. Yeah, strategy, interest, but also just being intentional about the relationships that I was building. I focused a lot on who was I working with. Like having an excellent manager like that that was advocating for me because he saw my potential that goes a far longer way in your career than just your knowledge and your expertise. Yeah, I definitely seek managers or mentors who are supportive. Super important to that and finding someone who understands your strengths and believes in you is really great. I want to ask you about imposter syndrome. Did you ever deal with that? Yeah, it’s interesting. Yes and no. You know, in terms of imposter syndrome and questioning my ability, I would say I was very conscious in the fact that a lot of times it wasn’t necessarily me that was the problem. We often work in systems that are not necessarily built for all of us in the sense that the systems have been in existence for a very long time and they didn’t necessarily consider the diversity in terms of people’s backgrounds, the diversity in terms of gender. A lot of these things were never considered when the systems were built. For me, a question that I always ask myself is that is it really imposter syndrome or is it the system? If it’s imposter syndrome, okay, then yes, I can definitely work in certain aspects or I can refrain my mindset to be able to to a place where I am confident and I am in a place where I know that I can put my skills forward because I’m the kind of person that if I’m going after, if I’m pursuing a path, it’s because I know I can do it. I’m not typically the person that’s really doubt that I can do it. It’s just a matter of how do I figure out how to get there. That’s typically how my mind works. But at the same time, I know that I’m navigating a system that is sometimes built against me being able to navigate it in the way that I want to. So yeah, I always ask myself that question and it’s a question that I tell my clients to ask themselves as well because it’s important to recognize that is it really you that is the imposter or is it the system that is built in a way that doesn’t favor you, doesn’t favor you as an introvert, doesn’t favor you as a person of color, doesn’t favor you as a woman. Those things also need to be taken into consideration while we’re in the bigger conversation of imposter syndrome. Yeah, I really like that having that clarity because yeah, you might feel like an imposter. I think that’s how it presents. But then you say, well, is this really me or is the system designed to make me doubt myself or make me feel like I don’t belong? So that really separates. So that’s not me. That’s not mine. So that seems like that could take away a lot of that feeling. Yeah, exactly. But you also mentioned mindset shifts. What do you talk to your clients about this? What advice do you give them? Yeah, totally. A lot of times when people are like the kinds that I work with either they’re looking to make career changes, they’re looking to get promoting or they’re leaders who are just trying to improve their performance so that they can just navigate the workplace in a better way. A lot of times they are introverts who have been told you need to speak up. You need to be, you know, participant. Never heard that one before. You think you’re doing well and then you get that one performance review and you’re like, wait, I thought I was doing great. Those are typically my kind of clients. So in terms of mindset, yes, it is an important thing that I focus on because ultimately we are trying to help people realize that a lot of what they’re trying to achieve, they already have it within themselves but sometimes it’s self-sabotaging beliefs or limiting beliefs that they have about themselves or their environment that is causing them to stay stuck or causing them to stay at the same level for a very long time. So being able to reframe your mindset does help a lot especially if you’ve been someone who’s been overlooked for many years. As you were saying, like in pasta syndrome, at some point you’ve been denied the promotion so many times you start to wonder, hey, maybe I am the issue, right? Or, you know, you’ve been in a place where you’ve been undervalued, underpaid for a very long time. It starts to affect yourself. It starts to affect your self-esteem and your confidence and how you perceive yourself. And typically that’s where my clients are when they’re coming to me. So we definitely have to work on how they perceive themselves, how they think because their thoughts are going to influence their actions and then their actions are going to influence their feelings and the results that they get in their workplaces. So that is an important foundation of the work that we do. We talked at one point about toxic workplaces and so sometimes it’s really not you, it’s them. So what are the signs to recognize that? Yeah, yeah, good way. Yeah, toxic workplaces. As much as I talked about that one great manager, I have worked in toxic workplaces as well in terms of having toxic leadership, but also I’ve been in a position where I had toxic co-workers as a manager myself and having to deal with toxic co-workers that were on my team. So I would say that typically you know where, you know the source of the problem, but you’re often ignoring it because you’re like, oh, you know, maybe it could be me. Maybe I didn’t speak to them in the right way. Maybe I didn’t do this. But what I would say is the most important thing is focus on patterns. They are often patterned in terms of behavior that you see coming from that person or coming from the culture. And if it’s a repeated pattern that’s just completely unhealthy, then it’s not something that you’re doing that’s causing it. It’s obviously that person or the policy or the system that is influencing why it’s creating that kind of toxic environment. So I would say that’s the first thing in terms of observing any patterns. And then the other thing is argue the only one because if you’re the only one who’s feeling like, okay, it’s a toxic environment, then maybe it is worth evaluating and seeing self-assessing. Is there something you can do differently? But if everybody else like other coworkers or other people are talking about the fact that this is a toxic environment and that things are going on that are being swept under the rug, nobody’s really talking about it, then obviously that gives you a confirmation that you’re not the only one who’s imagining this. This is really happening. So I would say those are some of the ways that you can just know that it’s not really something that you’re doing to create the toxic environment, but it’s coming from a certain person or it’s coming from the culture. Yeah, and we’re pretty good at pattern recognition also. Yes, sure. I’d say as a personality type, the more your workplace is resembling your middle school, the strong indication, probably maybe start looking for a different place to be. So in personal branding, I think that that can have, like on the face of it, can have a visceral, off-putting quality to it for people, but it seems like it’s been a very positive part of your story. So how do you talk about that with your clients and if they might have that initial negative reaction to that? How do you explain that to them? Yeah, building a personal brand is a key to a lot of the work that I do, especially with most of my clients being introverted. LinkedIn is typically the platform that we focus on because you are able to get a lot of traction on the platform without necessarily having to record a video or having to put your picture out there or having to send a bunch of direct messages to people. So typically what I focus on, firstly, is always having people understand what is their why, like what’s the purpose behind you building a personal brand. Because if you understand what your purpose and then what you’re trying to achieve, then we can develop a plan and a strategy to help you to be able to achieve that goal. But the mistake I often see people make is that they hear about personal branding, they know it’s important, so then they just start to post randomly and then they get exhausted because they’ve put in so much effort and then they forget about it for three months and they’re like, it’s not working, LinkedIn doesn’t work. But it’s important for you to actually know why you’re doing it and then create your strategy accordingly. The question that kept coming up in terms of posting on LinkedIn is, you know, how many posts? How many posts is going to get me to where I want to go? But what I was telling people is that consistency is way more important than frequency. And that’s what I’ve seen in my own journey as well. At the beginning, I was in posting as much as I post now, obviously now I’ve kind of built the muscle, I’m used to it, I can create a LinkedIn post in a few minutes, it doesn’t take me as much time. But at the beginning, what I was focusing on is being able to actually just be consistent. And you know, I’m talking about content specifically, but it’s not the only way that you can actually create a brand on LinkedIn. I actually started, because I wasn’t comfortable creating content, I felt like, okay, this is way too overwhelming. So I actually started my LinkedIn journey just creating comments. And I would create really thoughtful comments, like that would generate more conversation on other thought leaders’ posts. And what happened is that I maybe did that for a month or two, and that was how I started to understand how the platform worked, got a sense of how people write, what kind of posts get engagement, what posts don’t get engagement. And through one of the comments that I made, it got picked up by LinkedIn News, and that’s how I gained a bunch of followers through that one comment. And that gave me the confidence because I was like, hey, if a comment can do this, imagine what a post can do. And that’s when I started creating posts. When I’m working with my clients, I really meet them where they are, because I know that their confidence is going to grow as they begin to see the results from the platform. So there are certain clients that they’re just comfortable doing the comments, so we start there. And they’re similar to my journey. They recognize that, okay, this is working, and when they get to the space that they’re confident enough, we leverage the comments they’ve already created, and we turn them into posts. I have other clients who are just like, let’s go, let’s do the thing. And they’re fine. And then we create a strategy accordingly. I have very, very few clients who want to do video. I know I do video personally, but very few clients who want to do video, but they’ve still seen lots of success, getting speaking engagements, media features, getting new jobs. All that has happened, and I would say 95% of my clients don’t do video. So there’s still a lot you can do on the platform that doesn’t require a video that will still get you the result that you want. Yeah, I was curious what a couple examples of goals might be here. We talk about a strategy and goals with your personal brand, so finding speaking engagements being recognized as a thought leader along those lines. Exactly. Yeah, for some of my clients, it’s like they want to land a new job, like they want to transition to a new company within four to six months. So that’s kind of the goal, and we create a plan or a strategy around that goal. For others, they’re trying to build a side business, so they are already in corporate. They want to build the business on the side, and they’re looking for support to build their brand around that. And then I work occasionally with founders who are already established, they already have businesses, and they’re now looking more specifically for those speaking engagements for those media features or just to really build an audience around what they’re trying to do. So I would say those are the three main categories of goals. Yeah, makes sense. And then for introverts, some of this is going to sound pretty scary, because this is a lot of visibility, and some of us start out not feeling comfortable raising our hands in a team meeting, and then you’re posting online, and then now in your head, like all these people know me, and what if they think of what I say is stupid or this sort of thing, and then you know how lame that is, you probably think you care about it, but still there’s that voice in your head telling you that. So how do you help people get used to that, the visibility? Yeah, in terms of getting used to the visibility, I typically will always share my own story, because yes, in the beginning it’s uncomfortable, but once you get some kind of traction and success, those people who you were pen turned about at the beginning, those are the same people who are going to come to you and ask you how you did it. At the end of the day, all of us are looking to succeed. We’re looking to succeed in the areas that we’re gifted at and the areas that we want to be able to make an impact, and you can’t build your career, or you can’t build a business in isolation, as much as yes, you can be introverted and still operate and leverage your strengths and make sure that you’re taking care of your energy. Those are all things that I focus on when I’m working with my clients, so that they’re doing things from a place of comfort and that they’re not always stretching themselves, because if they aren’t stretching themselves, they’re just going to become overwhelmed and they won’t want to do it again. So we definitely focus on aspects of strength-based leadership, understanding what your strengths are, how do you leverage them, and then energy management, how do you manage your energy, how do you schedule your time, and how do you make sure that you are showing up as your best self when you have to show up. But the other thing is being able to understand that your goal is often bigger than you, and that’s typically how a lot of people get motivated to be able to do something, is that when you recognize that it’s not just about you, you’re going to be able to impact lots of lives, you’re going to be able to change people’s lives. That sense of, okay, it’s not just about me and how I feel, but it’s about the impact that I’m trying to make. A lot of times resonates with my clients, because they are typically people who want to help. They are people who want to be able to share the wisdom, the knowledge that they have, and impact someone else’s lives. So what typically helps is people recognizing that what you’re doing is actually not about you. You’re leveraging your story, you’re leveraging your knowledge, but the ultimate recipient is someone else, an impact that you’re going to make on their life. And when you’re able to remove that sense of it feels awkward, and then people are going to think this, people are going to think that, I’ve told some clients, just block them. All the people you’re concerned about, just block them. They don’t exist. Block them from your, if that’s really what’s going to stop you from being the person that you want to be in your career, in your business, for your family, then just block those people. Just ignore them. If that’s how extremely you need to go, but ultimately what I’ve seen over time is that the same people that you’re often concerned about are the same people that will come back a year, two years later to be like, hey, how did you do this? How are you able to build your brand? So yeah, that’s typically what I share with my clients. Yeah, I love that. In particular, that shift from a place of, if you’re so focused on yourself, then if you can shift that to, how am I helping people? How am I being of service? And I personally found that very motivating and calming because it’s turning the spotlight, shining the other direction. Exactly. We’ve moved from talking about personal branding into practically how are we doing this and getting comfortable with visibility. And then there’s another aspect of personal appearance because that’s part of your brand as well. I think it ties in with feelings of self-worth or self-confidence. So tell us a little bit about how you think about that. Yeah, so in terms of personal style, I think for me, it’s part of this strategy. The overall strategy that I’m teaching my clients is ultimately you want to be in a position where you attract opportunities and you’re not always chasing them. And as an introvert, that can be extremely exhausting. So that’s why you focus on attracting opportunities. If you’re going to networking events or if you have a big meeting coming up, subtle changes or subtle adjustments that you may are easy ways for you to be in a position where you attract instead of being the one who’s chasing. So I shared this in some of my content before, but for example, if I’m going to a networking or if I’m going to a meeting, I don’t know anyone. I will typically either wear a very bright suit, very bright shirt, bright earrings. I will find a way to stand out in the crowd instead of blending in. And what typically happens is somebody will come and be like, okay, I love your earring. For all I love the shirt that you’re wearing. And that ultimately is a great way to start a conversation. Because as an introvert, I feel like I’m really good at sustaining a conversation, especially one-on-one, but I’m not the best at starting them. And I know that that’s just, that’s just how I am. And you know, that’s how we are. So knowing that, I just put in place easy things, easy ways for people to come to me. And then once we’re talking, it’s much easier to have the conversation flowing. So yeah, I feel like personal style is a great way in which you are able to do that and be able to stand out from the crowd visually and not just based on what you have to share. Because I’ll say it’s unfortunate, but people make an impression of you within the first few seconds and it’s often based on what you look like, right? It’s not necessarily on anything you said, because often you haven’t said anything yet, but they already have an impression or an idea of who you are. And so there’s an old saying that I would hear when I was a kid, dress the way you want to be addressed. And so that is important because that’s part of your brand. That’s part of your image. I don’t focus strongly on that side in terms of how I support my clients, but I do collaborate with other professionals who do because it does make an impact in how people show up and how they are perceived in the workplace. Well, this has been a really great, really great discussion so far. I want to ask you, if you had one message to give to quieter aspiring leaders, what would it be? Yeah, I would say that as much as people don’t often recognize the skills and the strengths that introverts have, you need to recognize them and demonstrate to people the importance of your listening skills, of your problem-solving skills. But it’s your responsibility to recognize what you have to offer first, and that’s how you are able to get other people to recognize it. And that’s always been the approach that I’ve taken. You can underestimate me, you can overlook me as much as you want. At some point, it’s going to be difficult for people to ignore me. And I always have that mindset, and it’s always worked for me. I think, though, they start off underestimating me, and then they realize, oh, this is the person we should have went with, or this is the person we should have talked to. It’s going to happen. You’re going to get underestimated, you’re going to get overlooked, but don’t make it a thing that is continuously repeated. It can be something that you’re able to overcome, but it starts with you as a person recognizing the value you have to offer. That make it difficult for them to ignore you. Yes, thank you. You’re welcome. All right. If people want to learn more about your service and your work, where should they go? Yes, you can connect with me on LinkedIn, Lifa2S is at Pia, and that would be the best place to find me or my website, which is weapply.ca. And then, as Craig was mentioning, I do have a YouTube channel, so you can look me up, and I’d be glad to connect there as well. Fantastic. Well, thanks so much for being on the show today. Thank you so much. All right, let’s take a moment to recap what we covered with Lifa today. Number one, you’ve already got great active listening skills. Turn that into your strategy. Lifa used her listening superpower to spot a gap that nobody else wanted to fill. She positioned herself as the expert and got herself into the room. That’s quiet authority and action. Number two, personal branding done right is about attracting opportunities to you, not performing for an audience. For introverts, this can start with something as safe as a meaningful comment on LinkedIn. It’s consistency that matters more than frequency, and you don’t need to be on video. You just need to show up with intention. And number three, the next time you feel like an imposter, pause to ask Lifa’s question. Is it me or is it the system that’s making me feel this way? That distinction matters because internalizing the system’s failure to recognize your worth and turning that into your own self-doubt is a trap that you don’t need to fall for anymore. If this episode resonates with you, here’s one clear next step. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube so you don’t miss what’s coming next. I’m Greg Weinger. Keep leading quietly, and I’ll see you next time.