Quiet Authority in Any Language — How Introverts Lead by Asking Better Questions

If you’re an introvert in tech, you know this feeling. You’re in a meeting or with a client, and the person doing most of the talking is not the person who best understands the problem. Here’s the thing. Leadership communication is not about being the loudest person in the room, it’s about being the clearest. And as an introvert, you have to pick your spots. My guest today has spent her whole career figuring out how quiet people, and even people speaking in their second language, can actually lead a room without pretending to be someone they’re not. Welcome to The Introverted Leader. It’s a podcast helping introverted leaders embrace your underrated quiet strengths so you can get promoted and start earning what you deserve. I’m Greg Weingar. I have over 25 years of leadership experience, and yes, I am an introvert. My guest today is Casey Bale. She’s a career and communications coach. She spent a decade in IT consulting at Accenture and Appian, and then moved to Chile and had to relearn how to speak up all over again in Spanish. Let’s get into it. All right, Casey, welcome to the show. So glad to have you. Yeah, thanks, Greg. Thanks for having me. So I have to start out by asking, do you consider yourself introvert, extrovert, or other? Yeah, I’d definitely say that I’m more of a shy introvert. As much as I love connecting with people, I do tend to feel drained afterwards, and I feel like I do need to recharge. Yeah, very common indicators of introversion. Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of us get become more comfortable, and then suddenly we’ll be thrown into a situation that pulls us back into that place where I’m not fitting in. I don’t know exactly how I can fit in. So maybe walk us through earlier in your career when you had some of those feelings of, I’m not quite giving what people are asking, maybe some of that feedback because you were trying to go into leadership and to be more assertive, be louder, things like that. Yeah, I think that was always one of the main points of feedback from my managers was being able to have that executive presence and to speak up more. And so I really was trying to focus on improving that. And so I think trying to look for opportunities where I could practice more speaking up. And so I think if you’re earlier on in your career, a really great way to do this is to volunteer to onboard new team members. And I remember I did this when I was on the application support team at Accenture. I’d try to roll on maybe one or two people at a time. And it was great because it felt like a lot less pressure when I had to give these application walkthroughs just to one or two people. And then I think after that, once I was able to build some more confidence there, then I would recommend giving a knowledge sharing session to people on your team. Because at this point, you’re starting to become more of a subject matter expert on what you’re working on. And so as far as what that could look like, when I joined the enhancements team at Accenture, we were rolling on a bunch of people at once. And so we had something called lunch and learns. And so with this, people could present a topic about the application that we were working on and that way everyone could learn about it. And even though this was a little bit more pressure, because you did have to present to a larger number of people, it’s something that you knew really well, you were among your peers, maybe even junior employees as well. So I didn’t feel quite as nervous doing it. And then I remember going to my manager and asking for more feedback about how do I get promoted and how do I improve these different skills that I need to get promoted. And I remember them telling me I need to become a go to person for something on the team, because when issues happen, my manager wanted to be able to go to someone that knew how to troubleshoot these issues. So I think that before you can really lead a team of people, you need to become really comfortable with taking ownership of your work, just because as you start to move up, you’re only going to take ownership of more and more things. Yeah, that’s really sound advice. And it echoes some things that a number of my guests and Claire Elvis, Melita Campbell on the podcast, speaking about your developing expertise. And then, you know, the more that you can just become the go to expert and then even try to create artifacts and things that might travel, even when you’re not there, that are kind of capturing your expertise. Another suggestion was record videos of things, because those are things, especially in a large company like Accenture, they can travel the world demonstrating your expertise. And then, yeah, that’s a great way to start that ball moving. And then you’re brought into higher stakes situations where you can then see your expertise and then think, Oh, they would be really helpful in this other opportunity. Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s a really great point there, especially with recording the demos, because, you know, especially on these larger projects, a lot of times you end up giving that same information over and over again. Yeah. Nice. So from there, you started looking outward for these other opportunities. What are some examples of how you start to move from there once you’ve kind of established this reputation for being the go to person and one subject area. So once you start to become that go to person, then I would start to look for different opportunities where you can informally lead. So I know this can kind of depend on the type of company you’re at, but based on my experience at Accenture, they had different committees that you could join. So things like the Communications Committee or a Charity Committee. And so if your company doesn’t have these things, then another option could be to join a business or employee resource group, if those are available. And so I think for me, joining a committee was a really great opportunity because I was able to meet people on different projects and I could get experience leading some small initiatives that would help to add to the culture of the accounts and help shape it. One of the committees that I helped lead was the Charity Committee. And in that, I got the opportunity to lead a team of five analysts. And so even though it wasn’t project work, I still got experience leading meetings, delegating tasks, speaking to senior leadership because sometimes the executives would help out with the events. So I think that getting involved in a group outside of your project can be a really good stepping stone for becoming a lead of your own project. However, I do realize that sometimes people may not have the time to get involved with those types of committees. So you absolutely can look for more informal ways to lead on your own project. So for example, when I was on the app support team, I asked my lead if I could facilitate the ticket status meeting. And then when that went well, that just became one of my permanent duties on the team. Yeah, leading meetings is such a great opportunity to develop your leadership skills, especially as a junior rising up. It’s kind of a great fit for an introvert, because it gives you a role. And then I can’t be quiet because I have to lead and I have to make sure everyone has a chance to speak. And there’s a set of duties that you take on. But those are developing a set of skills, which you can then apply when you’re not leading the meeting. So it’s definitely encouraged on that one. Just a quick thought on maybe smaller environments you mentioned. Sometimes bigger companies probably afford a lot of these natural opportunities to where you’re working. If you’re in a smaller company, there’s a whole other set of opportunities are there because there’s not enough people to do all the work. And so there’s a lot of, I call it, you can become a glue person, you see like, well, there’s no process for this, sorry, there’s no one thinking about documentation over here. So I can jump in, appoint myself, the person is going to solve this problem. And then you just start doing it, don’t ask for permission. I’ve gravitated to smaller companies because I love those opportunities. And it’s just almost endless learning opportunities. There’s like, well, I’m going to solve this thing because no one’s doing it. And so then you go research and figure it out. And so I think both totally valid ways of developing these skills, it’s just a little bit different based on where you are. Yeah, I love that phrase. I never heard that being the glue and being able to just kind of jump in there. And no, I think that’s great to be proactive about it because I think that’s a good point where, you know, I also don’t think we should necessarily wait for permission sometimes to bring up an improvement, right? So I think it’s really great to be able to be proactive and be able to raise different ways that you can improve a process. Or if you notice a gap, being able to say, Hey, I can be the one that can take ownership of that. And that’s absolutely another way to lead. Yeah. And I think that’s common whether you’re in a larger company or small company. And it’s kind of tied back to what you were saying. There’s that original impetus that you had is like, I’m going to change this, I’m going to learn these things because I have a voice, I have things I want to share. And so that same drive is what’s, you know, can lead you to spot these opportunities. Don’t wait for permission. What you took over as a manager, walk us through your first opportunity because you were out proving that you had the capability of doing that. And then you were finally given an opportunity. You earned the opportunity. So one of the first projects that I had to lead was it was an existing project that I joined. And I would say that that also is another challenge when you join an existing team and an existing project. So, you know, in that case, just based on my experience, I would recommend three different things to really try and establish your credibility as the manager on the project. And so for me, first I would try to get up to speed as quickly as you can on the project and then ask a lot of questions to the person that you may be replacing. So in this case, I was replacing an existing manager, so getting their feedback. And then third, I would say is just to really get to know your team well. So when I joined, all the team members were already in place. This was a cutover conversion project just to give you some background. And so I was responsible for coordinating the tasks that were needed to move the client from their legacy system to a new system. And so that could end up involving up to 15 different teams to do that. Software systems. You’re replacing someone’s existing software that’s installed and cutting them over to a new one. Exactly, exactly. So when I joined, I was replacing someone. So I kind of had to take over this and everyone was already there. So it was a little overwhelming, you know, being the new kid on the block. And so what I did is as soon as I joined the project, I read up on all the documentation and started to familiarize myself with the current processes and who the main points of contact were on the project, and then made sure to ask a bunch of questions to the person that I was replacing to fill in any gaps after reading the documentation. And then really important was scheduling those one-on-ones with the direct people that were on my team just to get to know everyone, see how they worked. And I also remember shadowing them as well just so I could see what they did and understand each piece of the project that they owned. And so I think overall, especially if you’re joining a project that already exists, really just stay humble because you could be joining a project where someone’s been on the team for a couple of years before you even joined. So I would talk to them, learn from them, get their perspective on things, and then go from there adding in your skills and your knowledge. And so I think that’s the way that I was able to establish credibility, just really understanding what’s going on, see where I can add value, and really putting in the work to add that value. And I think that the team can see that and recognize that. Right, it sounds like you’re really respecting the knowledge and experience of the people on the team and making that feel like, okay, you’ve heard their story and that you’re taking that seriously, making them feel heard. Absolutely, absolutely. Because it’s the truth, you know, I’m coming on to a new project. Before that, I didn’t know anything about cutover conversion. So I’m definitely not going in there saying like, okay, you should do this, you should do this, because I don’t know what to say. I have to learn it and have to understand what we’re currently doing. Are there any gaps there? How can I improve this? So definitely had to be humble joining that project. Yeah, and the last thing you want to do is come in guns blazing with fixed ideas of how it’s going to work or how it’s going to go. And your introvert tendencies are like, I’m going to gather all the information and really try to understand this deeply before I recommend ways to go. So what you did was you met with them, established all that credibility, but through really demonstrating how much you care about each person, their experience and respecting that that we can kind of build that rapport and establish credibility before you start ripping things apart. Yeah, I like especially what you said with showing them that you care, right? I think people really respond differently when you can show that to them that you care about their opinion that you want to listen to them. And then you kind of take in their perspectives and decide an approach forward. Yeah, it’s not transactional. The secret for that to work is you actually have to care. But helps to be earnest and care about people and want to improve situations. But I trust everyone here listening does. So that’ll work for you. Yeah, I feel like that’s a foundational thing. Yeah, that’s how I really I only want to work with people who care like that. And you know, doesn’t always happen. Mostly it does. You know, I think most people you encounter really are earnest and want to do a good job. We just have different ideas about how to go about it sometimes. Yeah, and I think it’s not a bad thing. I think that when we have kind of conflicting ideas there, if anything, being able to express those different perspectives can help you even find an even better solution. Yeah, absolutely. All right, so you’re progressing along in your career. And then maybe you can tell us a little bit about your work in Chile, where you had some new challenges, as you said. So when I was in Chile, after I got to about an intermediate level of Spanish, I decided to go back into IT consulting. So I started working as a scrum master down there. And I do think there were some challenges going back into it. There definitely was a cultural difference that I had to get used to. When I first joined the project, it was really hard for me to gain the trust of our product owner. And so I felt like I wasn’t connecting with them for some reason. And it even reached a point where I thought maybe I couldn’t go through with the project. But I didn’t want to quit. So I really think that the two biggest things that helped me to overcome these challenges were to ask questions and then also to actively listen. I know those things sound pretty simple, but just to give you an example, during some requirements gathering sessions, I believe it was really through the questions that I asked that I was able to start gaining the trust of our client. So things like asking about edge cases or maybe some other technical considerations that they hadn’t thought of. And so gradually I could start to see that the client’s attitude towards me was changing. And I think that it was by asking relevant and thoughtful questions. It was a really great way to show my expertise to the client. And I think as an introvert, the best part about this is that you’re not really in the spotlight as much, right? So when you’re asking these questions, the client’s the one that’s in the spotlight doing most of the talking. And so if you’re speaking in your non-native language, it’s just a lot easier to be the one asking the questions. I really love that. It really strikes me as something that is sound advice, even if you’re speaking the same language. It really allows the introvert. In us to shine, you think, you can synthesize. And then that question demonstrates all of your listening and all of your care, honestly, of what they’re saying and the care to get it right. Let’s turn to maybe some practical tools that we can share with the audience. You’ve talked about monthly one-on-ones with team members. What are some of your experiences there? So I think that the monthly one-on-ones has been a really great tool. And so I think that if you are afraid to speak up sometimes and you’re worried about saying the wrong thing, the one-on-ones can actually be a really great starting point. So being able to raise things to your manager first to get their feedback before you start to present those ideas or topics to a larger group. And so there’s actually a really great example that I had when I was in Chile that shows how this one-on-one really helped the entire team. And so I had a 30 every 30 meeting with my most junior developer and they were on the shire side, I could tell, but they did tell me that they didn’t quite understand the value of what they were delivering. And when they told me that, it actually made complete sense because at that time we had only been working on back-end development of our application. So there weren’t any screens and things like that. It was all back-end. And so the team had gotten really involved in how the back-end of the application worked, that we kind of just let the most obvious thing escape us, which was what is the value that we’re delivering. And so that feedback from that developer was unbelievably important. And so we asked the product owner to provide a brief explanation of how each work item contributed to the bigger business goals at the start of each development period. And it was really this small adjustment that helped our team to visualize what they were building towards. And that really boosted the motivation just in general of our team. And it all started with that one junior developer speaking up in that one-on-one meeting. So if you’re afraid of saying something wrong, just remember that it shouldn’t matter what level you’re at. Even if you’re the most junior person on the team, everyone has a unique perspective and experience and that’s valuable. Yeah. And the one thing I’d add to that is that’s leadership. It doesn’t matter what your title it is. When you speak up, then that’s an active leadership because you’re effectively speaking to have faith in the fact that other people are feeling similar things. Somewhere in the room, someone is feeling something similar. And when you speak up, you’re giving voice to that. And that’s leadership. And so I always think you might stay an individual contributor. I see your whole career, but some of the best leaders that I’ve worked with in my career have been ICs. They don’t want the formal title, but they have tremendous influence because people respect what they say. They’re willing to speak up. Maybe they don’t like to do it in the center of a crowd, but they do speak their minds, starting out one-on-one. But as you gain confidence in meetings and things like that, and so I’m always so proud of people on my team who I know that it’s not comfortable for them to speak up when they lead in that way. I find it personally inspiring. Yeah, I love how you mentioned that. It really is a form of leadership being able to speak up. And the thing is when you do that, a lot of times many other people are thinking the same thing, kind of like what you mentioned. And so being that one that’s able to bring that up and hear other people chiming in, like, oh yeah, I was thinking that too. And so that always is a great feeling. Yeah. And then you’ve had experience with like we all have with imposter syndrome. What’s that been like for you? Yes. So imposter syndrome, I think for me it’s always kind of present even now, just trying to ground myself sometimes. So I feel like whenever I am feeling it coming up and feeling like I’m not capable of something, I really just try to ground myself in evidence and facts. I find that really helps me. And so for instance, I would always freak out a little bit before any type of presentation to the point where my hands would go cold and my body would shake and the heart would start to race. And I just can’t control it. So in order to help myself with that, I would just ask myself, you know, is there any hard evidence that I should be feeling this way? And usually the answer was no. And then I would ask myself, are there any evidence that I’ve done something like this before? And in the case of presentations, the answer is yes many times. And so I think going down that line of questioning really helps to calm me down and kind of get myself out of my head a bit and start really focusing more on what’s real rather than all those worst case scenarios that are going on in my head. Is there evidence I should be feeling this way? Is there a tiger that I’m facing down or am I being surrounded by an angry crowd of thugs or people with spears or something like that? Yeah. What comes up for you in that question? What I mean by that for evidence to make me feel this way is that have I done something like this before where something really bad happened? Like, have I presented in the case of the presentation? Have I presented? And then everyone just started laughing at me and just saying, oh, that’s stupid or all this stuff. So I’m like, is there any evidence that shows that I should be feeling this nervous before this presentation that everything’s going to go completely wrong? And yeah, most of the time, no, there’s not evidence that people have shamed me off the stage or something or stuff like that. So I start to feel calm and be like, okay, is this a rational fear that I’m having based on evidence at least? And I realize feelings are not always rational or based on rational things. But that’s what I meant by that question. Those are good suggestions. There’s that idea that your body can’t distinguish between the feelings of nerves and excitement are kind of identical from the perspective of the body. So I’m just really excited right now. The body’s showing that, yeah, I’m excited about this. I’m looking forward to this. Yeah, I think that’s a really great way to reframe it. And I think also just kind of going over everything beforehand and realizing, I do have a lot to share with people and it is valuable. So I like that reframe that it’s also something to be excited about too. Right. And that goes to the heart of the imposter syndrome is remembering all the things you do well, how qualified you are, and that you don’t necessarily know more than other people, but there’s value in sharing what you have. And you probably do know more than other people about this specific subject. I think that that’s another really great point kind of going back to with the feedback and having those 30 every 30s. So that actually just reminds me that, you know, having that consistent feedback can really help you to get more of an objective perspective of what’s actually going on. Right. So I think getting that feedback and, you know, for me, I’m almost like a recovering perfectionist where I think everything, you know, maybe I’m not doing as well as I thought I should be doing. And so it was nice to have that feedback from my team that, you know, things are going okay and or for my manager. And so I can kind of calm myself down that way. And, you know, even if things weren’t going as well as I thought, then you still get feedback and you’re able to develop a plan to be able to address those things. So it’s really a win-win there. Yeah. And if I had one bit of advice for somebody that I wish that I’d really taken to heart early in my career, it was to seek out and embrace feedback. Because I was, I think I was too fragile at the time, you know, any negative feedback was kind of devastating to me. It was too much. But what that did was it deferred so much learning for me because I just personalized it. But the more that you can embrace feedback and get honest feedback from people like from your boss, from your peers, just constantly, the sooner you can improve, that’s a characteristic of people who rise pretty rapidly that I’ve observed in my career. They truly seek out feedback and they act on that. Yeah. And I think it’s kind of like reframing it where it is, they’re trying to help you, right? I think sometimes people can think that they’re trying to go against you, but they’re trying to help you and it allows you another opportunity to address those things and to keep growing. All right. You kind of had quite a progression here in terms of your leadership growth. What’s the place you feel like you’ve gotten to now? Where do you see avenues for growth and where do you want to take it from here? Yeah. So I would like to continue growing, of course. And actually earlier this year, I did start to work on a communication and confidence coaching program for a small professional services firm. And it was to help some offshore employees communicate more clearly and confidently. So I’m really excited about that. It’s a little different from helping the IT professionals with their job search and their interview processes, but I’m still doing that. But I also wanted to continue to grow and to continue looking for other ways where I can help IT professionals to communicate better and more confidently. Kizzy, is there anything that I haven’t asked you yet? Maybe the only other thing I would say, and it does seem maybe a little counterintuitive, is about managing your fear and anxiety of speaking up. In order to do that, I would recommend to continue to put yourself in some uncomfortable situations where you do have to speak up. And I would say it’s not necessarily that you have to just start volunteering to speak at the all hands meeting or something at your company, but just taking a small step where you can start proving that you can speak up and you do have things to say and that 99% of the time nothing bad happens. And the reason why I would suggest this is because once you start setting goals for yourself to speak up, and again, it could just be saying one thing in each meeting that you attend, you’re going to start gathering that evidence that you can speak up and you’ll have this list of things that you’ve said and great things that you’ve done. I believe that’s the way that you end up building this unshakable confidence. It’s taking those small steps, building that proof that you can kind of look back on and realize, okay, even if you feel nervous, you’ve already done something like this before. So you should be able to do it again. Yeah, that really matches my experience. You have a slow progression and you try something that is a little bit scary, but not too scary. So the metaphor is like you’re wading out into the water at the lakeshore. It might seem really cold and unpleasant, but you get in and you start to get comfortable and then you go a little deeper and a little deeper. It’s that kind of progression. Exactly. I think sometimes people think if you don’t go from zero to 100, then it’s a failure, but no, it’s all those little steps going to that next level, it all adds up. And I think all of that is what ends up leading to you feeling more confident. Yeah. And remembering to cut yourself some slack and be gentle about it, because we all start out as that shy eighth grader have that within us. And so that eighth grader needs encouragement and they need to just do a little bit at a time. And the other bit of advice related to that is just don’t compare yourself to anyone other than yourself. Yesterday, you know, like where am I? Where was I at there? And look how far I’ve come. You know, I’ve waited out all the way over to here and you don’t need to compare yourself to anyone else because you’re unique and you’re on your path. Yeah, I love that. I absolutely 100% agree being able to just focus on where you’re at. And if you compare yourself to other people, that’s not you. That’s someone else. They’re on their own journey. Yeah. Casey, this has been really fun. I’m really glad we had this time together. Where can people go to learn more about you and your work? People can find me on LinkedIn. I’d be happy to connect with you there. I also provide some free coaching sessions via my meetup called career coaching for introverts and ESL community. And then I also do provide a free PDF on how to ace your behavioral interviews, which can be found on my website homepage, kcbale.com. Share what are behavioral interviews? Sure. So behavioral interviews are those questions where they say, tell me about a time when you had to deal with a challenge at your work and how did you overcome that? So being able to talk about your experiences and how you have dealt with that. And usually companies like to ask those types of questions because based on how you handled situations in the past, it’s a good predictor for how you may handle situations in the future when you do join their company. Yeah, that sounds very useful. Thanks so much, Casey. Thanks for being on the show. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. All right. That was Casey Bale. I have three things I hope you take away from this conversation. Number one, thoughtful questions are the introvert’s secret weapon. As Casey showed, it takes all the pressure off you because when you’re the one asking, the spotlight’s on the person. Yet your presence, your insight, and your expertise are all on display. And this works whether you’re new to a project, new to the language, or just new to a room that you don’t feel comfortable in yet. Number two, one-on-ones are where quiet leaders find their voice. Before you try speaking up in an all hands meeting, focus on speaking up with your manager. Casey’s story about a junior developer surfacing a critical team issue in our one-on-one was a great demonstration of leadership. No stage is required, just the courage to speak your mind. And number three, confidence is built by accumulating evidence of your good performance one rep at a time. Say at least one small thing in the next meeting you attend. Facilitate a recurring meeting. Volunteer to onboard a new team member. Each action like this adds to the proof you can turn to the next time your inner voice starts to tell you, I can’t do this. And I loved Casey’s question, is there any evidence I should be feeling this way? And have I done something like this before? This is a tool that you can start using now. If you enjoyed this content, here’s one next step. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps more introverted leaders find this content and you don’t have to miss out on the next episode. I’m Greg Weinger. Keep leading with quiet confidence and I’ll see you next time.